Let's assume that 10% of the population is gay, 10% is bi and 80% straight (rough estimates, assuming a distinct gender binary and no difference between identity and behaviour, and that everyone who fancies men fancies me, which clearly they should) then 90% of the women I meet might fancy me, and 20% of the men. That means that I should reasonably expect to have 4.5 times as many female partners as male, rather than the 50:50 ratio mentioned above.

And that's before you factor in things like bisexuals often feeling more comfortable in "straight space" than "gay space" due to biphobia from the gay community…

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She never replied.

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I meant to write *expected*

Its not just bisexuals lesbians attack have a look at the latest public offering by Julie Bindel against transsexuals like myself.

This is like a 1950's view on homosexuality only aimed at transsexuals.

Is she still at it? I think the one thing that we all agree on is that Bindel is a walking pile of crap. She is to transsexuals what "conversion therapy" proponents are to LGBs.

I'd like to see this "2005 Guardian study". Why didn't she give us a proper source? Scared we might read it for ourselves and realise she was misrepresenting data? Oh, and don't get me started on the whole "NUS won't let me soapbox, trannies said mean things about me, I'm clearly more repressed and threatened than any of them" whinging. Fundamentalist christians play that same card all the time – the big gay media wants to silence and oppress them, while gays roam the streets in packs, looking for impressionable children to convert.

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We had that debate with a very jet lagged Dr Susan Striker this year and Bindel was undoubtedly made to look a fool by the trans historian, academic and film maker.

The Demo was about Stonewall not Bindel they where not even chanting her name it was "Stonewall LGB where's the T" They did not even notice Bindel entering the event and the police where organised by the protesters themselves to police the protest.

Julie Bindel has the media to launch her attacks on transsexuals we don't have that cis gendered privileged position of media representation. So we in turn use our blogs and forums to respond.

Unfortunately Bindel has brought Janice Raymond's transsexual empire book (what a work of fiction) and she is slowly plagiarising it in her articles.

No organised campaign exists against her, but if she stick her nose into a hornets nest how can she complain when she gets stung.

She seems to think we don't have the right to reply.

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http://standpointmag.co.uk/the-operation-that-can-ruin-your-life-features-november-09-julie-bindel-transsexuals?page=0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0%2C0

This is like a 1950's view on homosexuality only aimed at transsexuals.

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Don't get me wrong. I'm against discrimination based on someone's race or sex or sexuality. But on the other hand I don't know the full details about life as a specific ethnic minority and if I have prejudices against someone for whatever reason then I need to be challenged in my prejudices.

Doesn't make you any less of a jackass. Why aren't YOU challenging YOUR prejudices? I fight for my rights, and I make sure to challenge my views on others. I was taught this as far back as nursery school. It is a fairly important part of being a decent person, you know.

To put it another way, if someone left their wallet on a restaurant table and you stole it, sure it's their fault for leaving it. But not as much as it is your fault for stealing it.

Is everyone in agreement that bi (and gay) people have a responsibility to be open about their sexuality in order to challenge prejudice at work and at home (including opposite sex partners of bi people?)

Only if they reasonably can. I fight my own battles and I won't accept that other people need to sacrifice themselves for me. I'm not selfish enough to want people in high risk situations to endanger themselves for my sake. Especially when it comes to young, dependent LGBT youths.

Are openly bi people here in agreement with the idea that
closeted bisexual people are harming your cause by their refusal to come out?

Nope. If it's not something that can be reasonably accepted of them, then it's only hypothetical. That's like saying our government is harming our economy by not discovering the secrets of alchemy. Those who can should, those who can't shouldn't.

Oh, and before you ask, my responses were about all LGBT people, not just the bisexual ones.

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Also, there's no such thing as "bisexual rights". Bi people campaigned for those rights we were still being denied: the gay ones. I thought having same-sex attraction made bi people and gay people the same where it counts.

Simon Murphy:
(and again it is MY experience, it is not a universal truth)

And that's the reason I'm ignoring almost everything you've written. You make blatantly over-generalised assumptions, pretty much admit that's what you're doing, and then ask us to answer for them. Say what? My life is nothing like the odd picture you're trying to paint, so none of this stuff really applies to me. I have no answer for you.

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There really shouldn't be any prejudice against bisexual people. This is not because they are bisexual but because there really shouldn't be any prejudice against anyone. Prejudice of all kinds emerges when people start thinking of others as group-members first and individuals second.

Although, to be honest, I am very surprised that there is prejudice against bisexuals from gay people at all. I simply cannot think of any coherent reason why such prejudice might emerge, unless it also accompanies prejudice against the heterosexual community. Is it something to do with jealousy about the pool of potential partners a bisexual person has when compared to a gay person? I can sort of see that, but it strikes me as a terribly abstract reason for such animus as is allegedly present.

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So people who identify as 'gay', in your view are lying about their true bisexual orientation? You made that statement in post number 2. Check it out.

But if someone thinks that the reverse is true ie that a bisexual person is merely lying about their true gay sexual orientation then they are a biphobe?

Are you really trying to argue that you don't see the hypocritical double standard here?

I did not call you a homophobe until you started using clearly homophobic slurs about 'prolapsed arses' etc.

You need to stand by your words.

Please explain where you see evidence of my alleged 'biphobia'. Please actually point out the specific instances of my 'biphobia'. I've repeatedly done you the undeserved courtesy of pointing out the specific posts which illustrate your personal hypocrisy, double standards and homophobia (without resorting to schoolyard tactics of name-calling).

I'm simply asking you to do the same.

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You are such a hypocrite. And you are quite clearly homophobic.

In comment number 2 you make the statement: [b]"The intensity of the biphobia I witness in our community, especially amongst gay men, is really quite nauseating. "[/b]

Then you make the statement [b]"The vast majority of the people I know who live under the label of 'gay' are actually bisexuals"[/b]

I merely pointed out that on this discussion (as with any discussion of bisexuality on Pink News) that if a gay person DARED to make a claim suggesting that bi people are simply lying about the fact that they are really gay, they would be accused of biphobia.

Your double standards and hypocrisy is quite blatant.

Your subsequent descent into homophobic, gutter language about 'prolapsed arses' and the like is evidence (as if any were needed) that you are a repellent homophobe with nothing of value to add to this discussion.

Why don't you go bash a gay man or whatever it is that homophobes like to do?

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I only have pics of the ones I'm still really good friends with (hence you won't see a pic of my ex- wife anywhere nearby).

One of them is a Trans woman I dated for several years until living at opposite ends of the country became too much – I think she understood bisexuality better than anyone I've ever talked to about it.

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As Jennifer quite correctly pointed out, the only way we generally find out about someone's bisexuality is if they tell us. Of cours we assume a man's gay if he refers to his boyfriend, or that a woman's straight bis she refers to her husband – that doesn't equal prejudice.

And to be honest, while bisexuality's no issue for me at all as one of ze gays, I have come across borderline homophobic bisexuals who spout the 'I'm not GAY you know! No, I'm BI, me!' (Um, ok… sorry mate. Didn't think you'd see gayness as a particularly BAD thing y' know).

BTW – Dionysian, why do you have pics of ex-girlfriends on your desk? Don't mean to dig, but isn't that a bit… weird?

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I will answer reasonable questions – but I wont respond to the crap you are spouting from your prolapsed arse, Simon. There is no way on earth that what I said was homophobic, and any claim by you (and your buddies who will no doubt join your inane chorus) just shows that you have completely lost the plot.

If indeed you do think it is homophobic, then report it to the moderators and let them decide.

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I'm bisexual (with roughly equal number of male and female partners in my history, so I very much doubt I'm in denial) and have found all places I work to be very accepting of this. Occasionally people who don't know me that well make the assumption I'm gay because I have pictures of my 'hubby' on my desk, but I also have photos of my ex- girlfriends.

I'm in a monogamous, faithful relationship, and just because I 'bat for both teams' nobody thinks I'm going to make a pass at anything with a pulse. I get some stick from my lesbian and gay colleagues, but it is friendly banter because they are not afraid to make the jokes (where some straight people might worry about offending). I give as good as I get. Quite a few of the people I work closely with are very religious: They answer the call to prayer twice a day and observe Ramadan strictly, but they treat me no differently than anyone else.

Perhaps it is because I work in media and this industry tends to attract open-minded people that I have been lucky, as the only bi-phobic comments I have had have been out of the workplace when my partner (who IS gay) and I have been in 'gay' pubs or clubs.

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