Comments on: Gordon Brown wants civil partnerships to be held in the House of Commons http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/ PinkNews.co.uk Gay News (UK and world) from Pink News - all the gay news for the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgendered community in the UK and beyond- gay news from Pink News Mon, 22 Mar 2010 06:57:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Miriam the Tranz Schmiriam http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-81634 Miriam the Tranz Schmiriam Tue, 10 Nov 2009 22:29:22 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-81634 "Abi Chrisrtopher of Milton Keynes, I don't give a flying Toss about your life-style in your Milton Keynes Bubble. So leave mine alone! (You realise your surname is Biblicle? Christ..opher)" Leave her alone you , Nazi transphobic idiot! You're the one who said I 'loved the Nazis' when my family died in the holocaust - you're nothing but a lying pile of evil scum, 'Brian Burton'. "Abi Chrisrtopher of Milton Keynes,
I don't give a flying Toss about your life-style in your Milton Keynes Bubble. So leave mine alone! (You realise your surname is Biblicle? Christ..opher)"

Leave her alone you , Nazi transphobic idiot! You're the one who said I 'loved the Nazis' when my family died in the holocaust – you're nothing but a lying pile of evil scum, 'Brian Burton'.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Brian Burton http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78517 Brian Burton Wed, 21 Oct 2009 17:12:21 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78517 Abi Chrisrtopher of Milton Keynes, I don't give a flying Toss about your life-style in your Milton Keynes Bubble. So leave mine alone! (You realise your surname is Biblicle? Christ..opher) Abi Chrisrtopher of Milton Keynes,
I don't give a flying Toss about your life-style in your Milton Keynes Bubble. So leave mine alone! (You realise your surname is Biblicle? Christ..opher)

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78467 Robert, ex-pat Brit Wed, 21 Oct 2009 12:43:18 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78467 Zeke, indeed they're not the same as marriages, hence the name. If they were, the British government would desist from refusing to recognise a British same sex couple's legal marriage performed outside the country or their "certificate of marriage", but instead downgrades them to civil partnerships once the couple steps foot on British soil. As an expatriate living in New York, my state actually recognises same sex marriages for what they really are and doesn't downgrade them to domestic or civil partnerships, entitling those couples to the more than 700 privileges and benefits to straight married couples in the state. Further, there is nothing in British law that says says otherwise. A new tory government wil uphold the same interpretation. These partnerships provide most of the rights of marriage using a different label for them, legal segregation if you will which is what they are. Lets keep in mind that seven countries now allow us to marry, countries that provided their own versions of civil partnerships long before we ever conceived of them but came to the obvious conclusion that after several years, they were indeed not equal to marriage or viewed and treated as such. There are many here who would argue that its just a case of semantics, it most certainly is NOT. I think it has a lot more to do with denial of the obvious when you consider that with seven countries and more to follow, a few states in America far outnumber them. That trend will continue, thankfully. Personally, I don't see full marriage equality happening in the UK, but there will be more EU countries moving ahead of us. Zeke, indeed they're not the same as marriages, hence the name. If they were, the British government would desist from refusing to recognise a British same sex couple's legal marriage performed outside the country or their "certificate of marriage", but instead downgrades them to civil partnerships once the couple steps foot on British soil. As an expatriate living in New York, my state actually recognises same sex marriages for what they really are and doesn't downgrade them to domestic or civil partnerships, entitling those couples to the more than 700 privileges and benefits to straight married couples in the state. Further, there is nothing in British law that says says otherwise. A new tory government wil uphold the same interpretation. These partnerships provide most of the rights of marriage using a different label for them, legal segregation if you will which is what they are. Lets keep in mind that seven countries now allow us to marry, countries that provided their own versions of civil partnerships long before we ever conceived of them but came to the obvious conclusion that after several years, they were indeed not equal to marriage or viewed and treated as such. There are many here who would argue that its just a case of semantics, it most certainly is NOT. I think it has a lot more to do with denial of the obvious when you consider that with seven countries and more to follow, a few states in America far outnumber them. That trend will continue, thankfully. Personally, I don't see full marriage equality happening in the UK, but there will be more EU countries moving ahead of us.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: James http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78456 James Wed, 21 Oct 2009 11:05:40 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78456 I think the headline of the article is a bit misleading, as are Chris Bryant's words confusing. The Prime Minister was saying that Civil Partnerships should be able to happen in the Palace of Westminster, such as Westminster Hall (a lovely venue I might add). However I don't think anyone is seirously considering using the House of Commons chamber (or for that matter the House of Lords) so why put it as "Gordon wants CPs to be held in the House of Commons"? I believe the chambers are there for a purpose and not for anything else. By all means I think it's a wonderful idea to allow civil partnerships in parts of Parliament, and for that matter I think we should also be allowed to marry in a church, but not, as the artcile misleadingly suggests, in the chamber. I think the headline of the article is a bit misleading, as are Chris Bryant's words confusing. The Prime Minister was saying that Civil Partnerships should be able to happen in the Palace of Westminster, such as Westminster Hall (a lovely venue I might add). However I don't think anyone is seirously considering using the House of Commons chamber (or for that matter the House of Lords) so why put it as "Gordon wants CPs to be held in the House of Commons"? I believe the chambers are there for a purpose and not for anything else. By all means I think it's a wonderful idea to allow civil partnerships in parts of Parliament, and for that matter I think we should also be allowed to marry in a church, but not, as the artcile misleadingly suggests, in the chamber.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Rich http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78453 Rich Wed, 21 Oct 2009 10:50:17 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78453 Nice idea - Prime Minister, but do it with full marriage and full rights for all gays in Britain. Nice idea – Prime Minister, but do it with full marriage and full rights for all gays in Britain.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Tim Hopkins http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78439 Tim Hopkins Wed, 21 Oct 2009 09:34:39 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78439 The problem with RobN's proposal is that it's not full equality. Some churches and other religious bodies DO want to be able to conduct same-sex marriages on the same basis as they conduct legally effective mixed-sex ones. The Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) for example. So what we need is an extension of ALL of marriage law to same-sex couples, allowing those religious bodies which are allowed currently to legally solemnise marriages, to do so for same-sex couples if they want. While at the same time, allowing those religious bodies that oppose same-sex marriage to decline to conduct them. That's the way the law seems to be formulated in other states that have legally effective religious marriage, and same-sex marriage. Maximum religious freedom means allowing churches and other religious organisations to choose for themselves whether to do same-sex marriages. At the moment, the law discriminates against LGBT people of faith in faiths which support their equality, like the MCC and the pagans, by disallowing them from having a legally effective wedding conducted by their faith, even though both they and their faith organisation want to be able to do them. Tim The problem with RobN's proposal is that it's not full equality. Some churches and other religious bodies DO want to be able to conduct same-sex marriages on the same basis as they conduct legally effective mixed-sex ones. The Metropolitan Community Church (MCC) for example.

So what we need is an extension of ALL of marriage law to same-sex couples, allowing those religious bodies which are allowed currently to legally solemnise marriages, to do so for same-sex couples if they want. While at the same time, allowing those religious bodies that oppose same-sex marriage to decline to conduct them.

That's the way the law seems to be formulated in other states that have legally effective religious marriage, and same-sex marriage.

Maximum religious freedom means allowing churches and other religious organisations to choose for themselves whether to do same-sex marriages. At the moment, the law discriminates against LGBT people of faith in faiths which support their equality, like the MCC and the pagans, by disallowing them from having a legally effective wedding conducted by their faith, even though both they and their faith organisation want to be able to do them.

Tim

Report this comment to us

]]> By: RobN http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78434 RobN Wed, 21 Oct 2009 08:12:07 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78434 Pete & Michael et al: I can go with your attitude towards the church, but then this opens one huge can of worms that I for one had not even considered until now. One of the big arguments gays throw back at the Bible-Bashers complaint about 'the sanctity of marriage' is "What difference does it make to heterosexuals if we get married?" to which the answer quite obviously is 'none'. However, what you are proposing is an entirely different kettle of fish, by essentially disestablishing the church from the law, and removing the church's legal ability to carry out a marriage. Much that I agree personally that the two should be separate, it's going to kick off a HUGE argument, and then the churches will have a genuine axe to grind and armed them with a weapon with which to beat us with. At present, their arguments are illogical and irrelevant, but by doing this, you will change the whole reason for not wanting gay marriage. I can't see why Registry offices cannot do this, as they already perform non-religious but legally binding marriages for straights, so it would be a simple matter to change man/woman to man/man or woman/woman. Most churches don't want to marry gays, and most of us wouldn't want to be married in a church either, so what's the problem? Let them do their straight thing, and leave the rest to the Registrars to perform. Pete & Michael et al: I can go with your attitude towards the church, but then this opens one huge can of worms that I for one had not even considered until now. One of the big arguments gays throw back at the Bible-Bashers complaint about 'the sanctity of marriage' is "What difference does it make to heterosexuals if we get married?" to which the answer quite obviously is 'none'.

However, what you are proposing is an entirely different kettle of fish, by essentially disestablishing the church from the law, and removing the church's legal ability to carry out a marriage. Much that I agree personally that the two should be separate, it's going to kick off a HUGE argument, and then the churches will have a genuine axe to grind and armed them with a weapon with which to beat us with. At present, their arguments are illogical and irrelevant, but by doing this, you will change the whole reason for not wanting gay marriage. I can't see why Registry offices cannot do this, as they already perform non-religious but legally binding marriages for straights, so it would be a simple matter to change man/woman to man/man or woman/woman.

Most churches don't want to marry gays, and most of us wouldn't want to be married in a church either, so what's the problem?
Let them do their straight thing, and leave the rest to the Registrars to perform.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Voidal http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78423 Voidal Wed, 21 Oct 2009 01:17:55 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78423 Will this constant propaganda on behalf of the Labour Party on Pink News ever stop? Civil Partnerships are a waste of time. They reinforce the notion that a gay couple is NOT equal and LESS worthy than a straight couple - who can marry under the Law. For Brown and Labour to claim anything else is a lie. They are WRONG to do so. Will this constant propaganda on behalf of the Labour Party on Pink News ever stop?

Civil Partnerships are a waste of time.

They reinforce the notion that a gay couple is NOT equal and LESS worthy than a straight couple – who can marry under the Law.

For Brown and Labour to claim anything else is a lie.

They are WRONG to do so.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Zeke http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78421 Zeke Tue, 20 Oct 2009 23:55:53 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78421 I thought civil partnerships were EXACTLY the same as marriage except for the name. That's what I keep hearing from gay people and the government of the UK. So why is it that every other month or so we have one of these stories that clearly shows that they aren't the same. They aren't respected the same. They don't have the same legal, social or cultural value. So why do so many gay people believe and spread the lie that civil partnerships are acceptable? Are they willing to be satisfies with "almost as good" or "almost equal"? Gay partnerships will never have the same legal and social significance until the apartheid system of separate but "equal" (which NEVER is) is disbanded and everyone is given access to the same civil institutions, whether that be marriage or civil partnerships. And that will never happen as long as gay people in the UK are willing to settle for second class. I thought civil partnerships were EXACTLY the same as marriage except for the name. That's what I keep hearing from gay people and the government of the UK. So why is it that every other month or so we have one of these stories that clearly shows that they aren't the same. They aren't respected the same. They don't have the same legal, social or cultural value. So why do so many gay people believe and spread the lie that civil partnerships are acceptable? Are they willing to be satisfies with "almost as good" or "almost equal"? Gay partnerships will never have the same legal and social significance until the apartheid system of separate but "equal" (which NEVER is) is disbanded and everyone is given access to the same civil institutions, whether that be marriage or civil partnerships. And that will never happen as long as gay people in the UK are willing to settle for second class.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Dave http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78408 Dave Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:24:29 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78408 Will he not need to get Jan Moir's permission first. She's the authority on civil partnerships in this country now. Will he not need to get Jan Moir's permission first. She's the authority on civil partnerships in this country now.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Abi1975 http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78402 Abi1975 Tue, 20 Oct 2009 21:05:09 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78402 "I have the democratic right to be Christian." Brian Burton It is not your democratic right to impose a theocracy on everybody else. Marriage is just a legally recognised contract that existed long before Christianity and will still exist long after your cult has been wound up. "I have the democratic right to be Christian." Brian Burton

It is not your democratic right to impose a theocracy on everybody else. Marriage is just a legally recognised contract that existed long before Christianity and will still exist long after your cult has been wound up.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Jane http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78400 Jane Tue, 20 Oct 2009 20:48:10 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78400 AndySam, no-one really cares but Welsh disestablishment dates from about 1920, there's no established church in Wales. AndySam, no-one really cares but Welsh disestablishment dates from about 1920, there's no established church in Wales.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Brian Burton http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78374 Brian Burton Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:46:19 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78374 I had a wonderful Civil Partnership in the Registry Office in Southampton in 2006. Then we had a Wonderful reception with all our Church and none Church friends. The Feast was in the restaurant of South Western House. This was where the Passengers on the Titanic had their breakfast before boarding for their fatal voyage to New York. All this was made possible by the Labour Government. Would the 'CON'servative party give us anything? I had a wonderful Civil Partnership in the Registry Office in Southampton in 2006. Then we had a Wonderful reception with all our Church and none Church friends. The Feast was in the restaurant of South Western House. This was where the Passengers on the Titanic had their breakfast before boarding for their fatal voyage to New York. All this was made possible by the Labour Government. Would the 'CON'servative party give us anything?

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Tim http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78371 Tim Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:41:08 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78371 There is a petition for marriage equality here if people want to sign and spread the word: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Gay-Marriage/ There is a petition for marriage equality here if people want to sign and spread the word:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Gay-Marriage/

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Vincent Poffley http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78370 Vincent Poffley Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:34:29 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78370 Aha. Such a high-quality rebuttal! Well, I can't really expect anything more - after all, you haven't got any actual evidence to back up your position, so childish name-calling is probably the best weapon left to you. The intellectual paucity of the religious mind is quite amazing... Aha. Such a high-quality rebuttal! Well, I can't really expect anything more – after all, you haven't got any actual evidence to back up your position, so childish name-calling is probably the best weapon left to you.

The intellectual paucity of the religious mind is quite amazing…

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Brian Burton http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78369 Brian Burton Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:31:38 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78369 Vincent Poffley, Like I said To Abi. You too have Bollocks for brains..Get Stiffed! Vincent Poffley,
Like I said To Abi. You too have Bollocks for brains..Get Stiffed!

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Vincent Poffley http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78368 Vincent Poffley Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:24:11 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78368 You are perfectly entitled to believe whatever nonsense you want in the privacy of your own head. Just like anyone else. But when you try to claim some additional modicum of esteem, and special treatment of your nutty ideas, you go beyond what is acceptable. You do not get to claim that your beliefs be respected in the public sphere without evidence to back them up. You have none of this. They are mere opinions, and demonstrably false ones at that. You are perfectly entitled to believe whatever nonsense you want in the privacy of your own head. Just like anyone else. But when you try to claim some additional modicum of esteem, and special treatment of your nutty ideas, you go beyond what is acceptable. You do not get to claim that your beliefs be respected in the public sphere without evidence to back them up. You have none of this. They are mere opinions, and demonstrably false ones at that.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Brian Burton http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78363 Brian Burton Tue, 20 Oct 2009 16:12:10 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78363 Barry, Very well said dear boy, yours is the voice of reason. I am a Gay Christian, I have stated this fact many times on these threads and feel I have the democratic right to be Christian. I never attempt io impose my Christian views on any one, I cannot stand Fundamentalists either. Vincent Poffley would deny me my rights but I expect he would want me to accept his belifes (Whatever that is?) Barry,
Very well said dear boy, yours is the voice of reason. I am a Gay Christian, I have stated this fact many times on these threads and feel I have the democratic right to be Christian. I never attempt io impose my Christian views on any one, I cannot stand Fundamentalists either. Vincent Poffley would deny me my rights but I expect he would want me to accept his belifes (Whatever that is?)

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Vincent Poffley http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78356 Vincent Poffley Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:48:16 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78356 Why should I have the "grace" to accept the point of view of people who believe in gods when there is not a shred of evidence to support their view? It is a demonstrably false claim about the nature of reality, on a par with belief in the tooth fairy. To treat such people as if they have a valid contribution to make on this subject is to pander to ignorance. It is exceedingly patronising to all concerned. Face it, religious truth claims are entirely unsustainable in the face of the evidence. The sooner everyone realises this, the sooner we will all be able to have a grown-up conversation about ethical issues. Why should I have the "grace" to accept the point of view of people who believe in gods when there is not a shred of evidence to support their view? It is a demonstrably false claim about the nature of reality, on a par with belief in the tooth fairy. To treat such people as if they have a valid contribution to make on this subject is to pander to ignorance. It is exceedingly patronising to all concerned. Face it, religious truth claims are entirely unsustainable in the face of the evidence. The sooner everyone realises this, the sooner we will all be able to have a grown-up conversation about ethical issues.

Report this comment to us

]]> By: Robert, ex-pat Brit http://gaynews.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/comment-page-1/#comment-78352 Robert, ex-pat Brit Tue, 20 Oct 2009 15:41:07 +0000 http://www.pinknews.co.uk/2009/10/20/gordon-brown-wants-civil-partnerships-to-be-held-in-the-house-of-commons/#comment-78352 My apologies, I spelled "ceremony" incorrectly in the last post. My apologies, I spelled "ceremony" incorrectly in the last post.

Report this comment to us

]]>